Enjoy the full Transcript of the Podcast
Matt Lyles 0:00 Customer experience isn't a tangible product. Megan Burns, formerly with Forrester, said, "You can't buy a box of customer experience." It's because it exists in our minds and in our customers’ minds. If we feel it’s a great experience, then by definition, it is. If it feels horrible, it is because that feeling is valid. Companies can’t directly change customer experience, but they can manage it.
Matt Lyles 0:36 Welcome to the Simple Brand Podcast, now heard worldwide, including Clover, South Carolina. I'm your host, Matt Lyles, and this week I’m talking with Michael Hinshaw. Michael is the founder and president of the customer experience consultancy MCorpCX, where they help brands make customer experience easier for their leadership, employees, and customers. He’s recognized on over a dozen top global CX influencer lists and is the co-author of two best-selling books, including his latest, Experience Rules: The Experience Operating System and Eight Keys to Enable It.
If you’re a customer experience leader preaching customer centricity, you’ve probably got some teams on board—but maybe not everyone. For a truly customer-centric experience, everyone needs to understand that, regardless of their role, their work impacts the customer. Thankfully, Michael’s solution, the Experience Operating System, is a framework that embeds customer centricity across the entire organization.
Matt Lyles 2:59 Hi, Michael. Welcome to the Simple Brand Podcast.
Michael Hinshaw Hey, thanks, Matt. Great to be here. I’m looking forward to talking about Experience Rules.
Matt Lyles You've been in the CX space for over 20 years, right? Can you give us a condensed version of your journey and what’s changed in customer experience over the past two decades?
Michael Hinshaw Sure. My background is in marketing, with a master's in design. I started in the ad agency world, then shifted into brand strategy. Eventually, I co-founded MCorpCX. Over the years, I’ve seen customer experience shift in three key areas: the recognition of CX’s importance, the challenge of measuring CX value, and how CX has become integrated into business strategy.
Matt Lyles So how would you define customer experience?
Michael Hinshaw Simply put, it’s how customers feel as a result of their interactions with a company. Customer experience isn’t a product you buy; it’s subjective and personal. Companies can manage it through systems, processes, tools, and data to influence customer feelings.
Matt Lyles That’s insightful. Can you explain the Experience Operating System to me?
Michael Hinshaw The Experience Operating System is a set of eight keys focused on making an organization more customer-centric. It includes elements like strategy, vision, alignment, accountability, culture, and processes that work collectively to improve human interactions—whether those are with customers, employees, or partners.
Matt Lyles How do you encourage leaders to care about every part of this system?
Michael Hinshaw It’s about building cross-functional teams with shared goals around customer experience improvement. Journey mapping, for example, helps each department see its role in the customer journey and identify pain points from a customer perspective.
Matt Lyles And what about teams that aren’t customer-facing, like finance or legal? How can they be aligned with customer experience?
Michael Hinshaw They may not see their role, but functions like billing, finance, and legal can significantly impact CX. For example, confusing bills or legal documents frustrate customers. When these teams understand their influence, they become part of the CX solution.
Matt Lyles So culture and behavior play a big part in this system, right?
Michael Hinshaw Absolutely. Culture is how an organization works internally and externally. A company focused solely on profit might compromise CX, but treating customers well can lead to more revenue over time.
Matt Lyles Great insights, Michael. If you were to create a five-song playlist for Experience Rules, what would it include?
Michael Hinshaw Let’s see... Day ‘N’ Nite by Kid Cudi, Feels Right by Big Pig, Save Yourself with Big Data, I Got U by Duke Dumont, and Feel the Love by John Newman.
Matt Lyles Fantastic. Where can listeners learn more?
Michael Hinshaw The book is available on Amazon, and you can find more about MCorpCX at mcorpcx.com. I’m also on LinkedIn, happy to connect and chat.
